Comments on: The real ‘Fifth Beatle’? On death and dying and saying ‘Goodbye’

By: Michael Jones

Michael Jones — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 17:59:36 +0000

Hi again Tim
That all makes very good sense. The Child Bereavement Trust materials are excellent, in relation to children dying, and helping children understand death.
From my experience, it’s the adults in schools who need help with exploring their own feelings about death, before they can help the children.
This was very clear in my work with children with Duchenne Musculsr Dystrophy and shortened life expectancy. The adults’ confused attitude towards the children often led to significant consequences for the children. This included the adults being in denial, leading to the children being treated quite harshly, or overcompensating by overindulging the children. Neither of these responses added to the children’s quality of life. However, support from trained professionals was very helpful, I’m pleased to say.
Very best wishes and thanks for your input
Michael

By: tim Dunkerley

tim Dunkerley — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:06:14 +0000

That’s some interesting points. I have no academic reading or research to back this up but purely intuitively I would agree that the feeling of bereavement is probably universal but that the relationship between the expressing of emotion and cultural norms is significantly more than not universal but is informed by all kinds of socio economic and cultural influences, working in all sorts of interconnected ways.E.G. I only recently became aware of the speed with which it appears to be normal for the Northern Irish Protestant community to expedite funerals. I was aware that some cultures with middle eastern antecedents do this and assumed that the reason was historical /climactic.
Just taking the speed of burial/burial ritual as one example: The cumulative effect over years of that as a practice surely must have an effect on how, where and when the bereaved can express themselves.
Thanks for the CBT heads up, sadly we will always need to keep on top of handling this issue as well as we possibly can
TDx

By: Michael Jones

Michael Jones — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:42:03 +0000

Hi Tim
Thanks for your thoughts. I suppose that the feeling of bereavement, and the stages of grieving, are universal, while the cultural attitudes towards expressing emotions vary. Also the way that people deal with death and dying, including funerals, are culture-specific.
I had a little bit to do the Child Bereavement Trust a few years ago, and they are an excellent organisation.
Good to hear from you
Michael

By: Tim Dunkerley

Tim Dunkerley — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:09:36 +0000

Not lost, or even gone before (CF Cream “Your baby has gone down the plughole”)
Bereavement is so culture specific as well isn’t it. In general I would say we in UK are a little uptight and unable to access or express the strong emotions it brings up. BUT that is a massive generalization, as the UK does thankfully encompass many different cultures, all of which understand life /death in a variety ways.
To be honest being a WASP male even with some first hand experience of traumatic bereavement the whole thing still scares the hell out of me.Mainly because,like taxes, it is an unavoidable inevitability
TDX

By: Michael Jones

Michael Jones — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:22:09 +0000

Thank you Tim. It’s great to hear from you again. I thought we had ‘lost’ you, If you know what I mean. death is probably the most tricky subject to talk about in school: not from the children’s point of view, but because adults have very different views on how children should talk about death.
I worked for several years with children with Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, where the children have a shortened life expectancy. The complexity of my job was helping the adults in the school to have a common view about children. Your words are very wise.
Thanks again
Michael

By: Tim Dunkerley

Tim Dunkerley — Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:57:27 +0000

Hi Michael I will look out for this play.
Re bereavement at school( ie when we lose a pupil or someone in the school community) We have to accept that the majority of our pupils in an SLD school will be, to a greater or lesser extent, struggling with expression and receptive language. Therefore when something as massive as a death occurs we have to be extra careful to be very clear about what we are saying. In my teaching career I have experienced on average a loss for each year, either of a current, or just graduated pupil. The emotional toll remains extreme and painful each time. But hopefully we learn each time to help the rest of the community through a difficult time by making sure we are able to understand each other and express ours feelings and needs.
Big subject, however…. Rule of thumb, from my perspective. Avoid direct allegories and “magical” explanations. E.g. We are all feeling sad because someone has died. The reason we are so sad is because we will never be able to speak to that person or see them again, and that was something that made us happy. We can look at pictures etc and remember them and talk about them and that may well make us feel better as well as a whole lot of other emotions which are OK to experience (including anger). BUT the person has not “gone to heaven” “are always with us” etc.
Sounds really horrible like this in a theoretical way doesn’t it and I accept that some people may find this approach hard to accept on a number of levels. It’s a massive subject and has as many twists and turns as there are individuals. But my general point is that when communicating with an individual or a community that self evidently need clear, honest information in order to survive and thrive….this is a time when that communication really needs to be clear and unambiguous.
In my experience there are no rules for being bereaved, no clear cut stages of grief. (cf The Simpsons when Homer is told he has hours to live by the chuckling doctor… brilliant as always.sorry no youtube link but try and find it)
TDX

By: Michael Jones

Michael Jones — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 09:16:39 +0000

Hi Trevor!!
I wondered how long it would be before Fishy Music would be adding your unique contribution to this vitally important area for children who are bereaved, and the adults who care for them.
Good luck with your work, and keep us posted!
Michael

By: Michael Jones

Michael Jones — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 09:14:12 +0000

Hi Katja! Yes, and most of the emotional content of non verbal communication of emotion is in tone of voice combined with facial expression.
I hope Hannah’s play reaches a very wide audience, but what must be the emotional impact on the cast each night? It must be a hugely brave undertaking.
Great to hear from you and keep up your pioneering work!
Michael

By: Trevor Stevens

Trevor Stevens — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 08:47:50 +0000

Hi again Michael

Very interesting post. I’m currently working on a new project called “When a child dies” , a CD and book combination aimed at supporting teachers. In the middle of doing a lot of reading and contacts with Child Bereavement UK, Winston’s Wish and Helen House to gather tracks for the CD. If you could put Carolyn in touch with me, that would be a help too.

Keep up the good work.

Trevor
http://www.fishymusic.co.uk/

By: Katja O'Neill

Katja O'Neill — Sat, 06 Sep 2014 08:39:32 +0000

Hi Michael,
I had heard about Hannah’s play, now I really want to see it! As up to 93% of what we say is non verbal, Sue and I passionately believe in adding more body language/ signs/ facial expressions to spoken language to help children with their receptive and expressive language.
Thank you, Mary, for your kind endorsement of our work! May I ask you if we can use your quote?
Katja
Sign4Learning